WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama, who leaves on Thursday for Japan, Singapore, China and South Korea, gave Reuters an interview in the White House Oval Office on Monday.

Here is the transcript:

QUESTION: You've described China as a partner of opportunity, not necessity. Reuters and Ipsos actually took a poll last week, and ...

OBAMA: I saw it in your article.

QUESTION: Okay. Well, we found that Americans place a high importance on the relationship but tend to view Beijing as more of an adversary than a friend. And I'm wondering, do you see China as a rival or do you see it as an ally?

OBAMA: Well, I see China as a vital partner, as well as a competitor. The key is for us to make sure that that competition is friendly, and it's competition for customers and markets, it's within the bounds of well-defined international rules of the road that both China and the United States are party to, but also that together we are encouraging responsible behavior around the world. And on critical issues, whether climate change, economic recovery, nuclear non-proliferation, it's very hard to see how we succeed or China succeeds in our respective goals without working together. And that is, I think, the purpose of the strategic partnership and that's why this trip to China is going to be so important.

QUESTION: What about trade?

OBAMA: Well, trade ...

QUESTION: In terms of the rival ...

OBAMA: As I said, we are competitors. We have a very important economic relationship. One of the goals of this trip is to build off what we talked about at the G20, which is that over the last several decades that relationship was deeply imbalanced. On the one hand, we benefited greatly from cheap imports into the United States when it comes to -- as consumers. On the other hand, that was financed by huge debt, both on the consumer level and at the business and federal levels, or government levels, that are unsustainable, and our manufacturers I think have legitimate concerns about our ability to sell into China.

One of the things that we need to do coming out of this extraordinary economic crisis that we've seen over the past year is to move beyond this imbalanced bubble-based economic model toward one that is sustainable. And that means us selling more exports into China; it means us being more responsible in terms of our savings rate; it means China building on the growing consumer demand in their country. If both countries recognize their interest in a more sustainable growth model, then I think we will both benefit and the world in general will see greater stability.

QUESTION: One of the causes of those imbalances that you talked about during your campaign was the currency issue, manipulation of the currency. And I'd just like to ask you directly, are you going to raise that with the President of China on your visit? And do you agree with U.S. manufacturers when they say that the Chinese currency is significantly undervalued?

OBAMA: Tim Geithner, my Treasury Secretary, has been talking extensively to his counterpart about not only currency issues but the whole array of factors that have contributed to these imbalances. That broader conversation will be at the center of our conversations with the Chinese delegation. And as I said before, I think that as we emerge from an emergency situation, a crisis situation, I believe China will be increasingly interested in finding a model that is sustainable over the long term.

They have a huge amount of U.S. dollars that they're holding, so our success is important to them. The flip side of it is that if we don't solve some of these problems, then I think both economically and politically it will put enormous strains on the relationship.

So I'm confident that -- so the answer is, currency, along with a host of other issues, will come up. And I'm confident that both the United States and China can arrive at a broad set of policies that encourages trade, that benefits both countries, that allows ongoing economic growth. It's particularly important for us when it comes to Asia as a whole to recognize that in the absence of a more robust export strategy, it's going to be hard for us to rebuild our manufacturing base and our employment base in this country.

And right now we have about 9 percent of -- a 9 percent share of Asia's -- not just China, but Asia's trade overall, and it's estimated that for every 1 percent of increased share that we get, that could mean 250,000, 300,000 jobs.

So this is a jobs agenda for the United States. And the nice thing is, is that, look, Chinese consumers, they I think are ready to consume more. In some ways their consumption has been put on the backburner in the interest of export-led growth. That was an entirely legitimate strategy as they were trying to pull themselves out of very difficult economic times. As they become more confident, I think that they will be more interested in the kind of balanced growth that we think is achievable.

QUESTION: Sure. But you keep away from ... I mean, just very quickly, you keep away from sort of perhaps talk in the campaign of calling ... China a currency manipulator?

OBAMA: I think that it's important as President of the United States to make sure that as we enter into these discussions that we are looking at all the issues involved and not just one.

QUESTION: Mr. President, you said currency would be one of many issues. I want to look at another one that might come up. Critics have said that you are softer on China on human rights than your predecessor, and that this has encouraged hardliners. Will human rights be a big part of your talks with the Chinese, and will you -- are you prepared to get tough on them on this issue?

OBAMA: You know, I don't find the critics credible, because if you look at my statements, they have been entirely consistent, we believe, in the values of freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, that are not just core American values, but we believe are universal values. And there has not been a meeting with the Chinese delegation in which we didn't bring these issues up. That will continue.

QUESTION: If we could turn to another one of those key questions: climate change. That's obviously going to be a key issue in your talks with the Chinese. Just on the subject of climate change, could we ask you whether you are intending to go to Copenhagen for the talks? You went there for Chicago's bid for the Olympics; are you intending to go there for the climate change summit?

OBAMA: Well, here's what I'll say. Since before I was sworn in, I was very clear that I think dealing with climate change is vital to our security interests, is vital to our economic interests. It is an opportunity, as well as an enormous challenge, for us to shift to a clean energy economy. And after eight years in which there was resistance to even acknowledging the problem, I think my administration has been very clear that we intend to be a leader on this issue internationally.

Now, getting to a deal internationally is difficult. This will be one of the top subjects for our conversations with the Chinese. In my previous conversations with President Hu Jintao, I think he acknowledges that this is an area of great interest to the Chinese. The effects of climate change could be devastating on their agricultural systems and their ecology. And the key now is for the United States and China as the two largest emitters in the world to be able to come up with a framework that along with other big emitters, like the Europeans and those countries that are projected to be large emitters in the future like India, can all buy into.

And I remain optimistic that between now and Copenhagen, that we can arrive at that framework. It's hard work. And one of the things that I've come to believe based on a lot of summits this year is that the work is really not done at the summit; the work is done before the summit. And if I am confident that all the countries involved are bargaining in good faith and we are on the brink of a meaningful agreement and my presence in Copenhagen will make a difference in tipping us over the edge, then certainly that's something that I would do. But I've got to make sure that over the next three weeks, pressure is continually applied on our teams and everybody else's teams to actually create a framework that people can sign off on.

QUESTION: Do you think there's more you can bring, apart from what's happening on the Hill, sort of legislation which may not indeed be ready by then, but I mean --

OBAMA: Well, I think everybody understands that the Senate won't have acted on climate change legislation before Copenhagen. And our key partners, including Prime Minister Rasmussen of Denmark, the host, who's taken a very constructive and active role on this issue, I think recognizes that not every "t" is going to be crossed and "i" dotted in the next three weeks. I think the question is, we can create a set of principles, building blocks, that allow for ongoing and continuing progress on the issue, and that's something I'm confident we can achieve.

And I am confident also -- last point I'd make -- I'm confident that the American people will recognize the enormous opportunity around a clean energy economy and the ability for us to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions.

But it takes time. In meetings with world leaders, I've repeatedly explained that America is not a speedboat; we're a big ocean liner. And you can't reverse course overnight. But what we can do and we are doing is I think changing the trajectory of how we approach this issue, both in terms of public opinion, attitudes on Capitol Hill, and certainly among businesses who really understand that for America to lead in this issue ultimately will create enormous economic opportunities.

QUESTION: I'd like to ask about Iran and North Korea. You won the Nobel Prize for your nuclear disarmament efforts but don't seem to be making a lot of progress on either. And one of the stumbling blocks seems to be China, in both cases. Can you convince the Chinese to get tougher? And if you can't, do you really expect progress anytime soon?

OBAMA: Well, first of all, I think it's very important to say that if by lack of progress you're suggesting we have not already eliminated nuclear weapons from the face of the earth in the first nine months of my administration, then that's true.

QUESTION: Come on, you've won the Nobel Prize. Surely, by now ...

QUESTION: What's taking so long?

OBAMA: Right. On the other hand, I'm confident that the United States and Russia is going to sign a START treaty that institutes verifiable, serious reductions in our nuclear arsenals. That is something that we saw as an important message to send to the world, that we're not only talking about non-proliferation when it comes to other countries, but we are serious about meeting our commitments under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. That will be accomplished, I believe, by the end of the year.

With respect to North Korea, we were able to institute very vigorous sanctions that are being followed by countries around the world. And China was a signatory to that security resolution. And I have to remind people that the expectations were very low when North Korea first started on these tests. And the expectation was China would never go along, and yet they did, on much more robust sanctions than people expected.

With respect to Iran, we have unprecedented agreement with Russia and the other P5-plus-1 countries putting an offer on the table to Iran that every international observer suggests is a fair offer, giving them a pathway for legitimate civilian nuclear energy use, but that makes clear they are not -- that builds confidence in a process that will lead to an Iran without nuclear weapons. And although so far we have not seen the kind of response -- positive response that we want from Iran, we are as well positioned as we've ever been to align the international community behind that agenda.

So I would strongly argue that we have made more progress on this issue over the last several months than we've seen in the last several years. But it is going to take time. And part of the challenge that we face is, is that neither North Korea nor Iran seem to be settled enough politically to make quick decisions on these issues.

OBAMA: I've used up our time.

WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN ROBERT GIBBS: You have two minutes, so go quickly.

QUESTION: One quick question. You're nearing the final stages of your decision-making on Afghanistan.

OBAMA: Yes

QUESTION: And I know that you've been frustrated that a lot of the discussion has spilled out into the public view.

OBAMA: Yes, it does seem ...

QUESTION: But given that it has ...

GIBBS: Was that the question?

QUESTION: Given that it has, do you think that you have leeway to give General McChrystal anything less than the 40,000-troop increase that he's requested without risking the perception that you're weakening the commitment in Afghanistan?

OBAMA: That's not how I think about the problem. My obligation -- my solemn obligation, as Commander-in-Chief, is to get this right. And then I worry about people's perceptions later.

QUESTION: Sir, then I would just throw in one last final question. You know, you've had a very challenging first year, nearly a year in office. And you've had some notable successes, the economy, and made a lot more progress on health care than many people would have thought. I'd just like to ask you whether you think you've made any mistakes in your time?

OBAMA: Oh, we make at least one mistake a day.

QUESTION: Any you'd like to tell us about?

OBAMA: But I will say this, I don't think we've made big mistakes. I don't think we've made fundamental mistakes. Everything from how we handled some of the early vetting on our appointments to how I phrased commentary on an arrest in Cambridge to -- I mean, there are constant sort of things that I think have proven unnecessary distractions. But in terms of the core decisions that we've made to rescue the economy, to move forward on a path for moving our troops from Iraq, on making sure that we've gone through a rigorous process in Afghanistan to how we have moved health care to a place that seven Presidents have not been able to get to. I feel very good about our progress.

GIBBS: Thanks, guys.

QUESTION: Thank you very much.

OBAMA: Thanks for taking the time. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

先说为什么我们当时来美国，一个字：钱。我这里是指大多数在国内靠工资过活的人，即使是高干子弟，在20年前，也都是穷酸溜的，好像抽上包万宝路就高人一等了，我的哥们就是高干子弟，出国也是借钱来的，唯一特殊的就是在教育部蹭了个海外家属证，所以不用报效祖国9年，就可以到美国来进行解放全世界的大业了。我当年也在国家机关工作，大学毕业的第一年的月工资，加上奖金也就100块，而且，80年代时，很难找到弄外快的地方，除非你也撂下脸子，去街上倒服装，电器什么的，忘了那时说的“做导弹的不如卖茶蛋的”。那点工资，还不够我们哥们一晚上搓麻的呢。去送礼，两条外烟加两瓶竹叶青，就基本畅通无阻了，现在你试试，转手就让人扔给街上要饭的了。那时就这样，谁都穷。于是听从美国回来的人说，打两月的工就能买辆二手车了，那能不让人眼红吗？ 而且当年驻外的工作都是单位里最抢手的活了，为了弄个公派出国，多少人不惜打破脑袋，吵翻脸争取到个名额。不要说美国了，连去非洲的机会都抢。

而且，当年你还记得拿到签证有多难吧？ 而且中签率有多低。北京三里屯美国使馆外的长龙有谁还记得，每天大清老早，就有几百人的“early bird”要试他的运气了。如果拿到了签证，就像中了六合彩一样，不光是自己，全家老小，亲戚都羡慕得恨不能你明天就是百万富翁了。好像当年传的有个人被拒签了16次，最后一次把护照使劲仍在签证官面前，大声说，不去就不去了，美国有什么好？ 但这话让签证官听到后，把护照捡起来，说我改变主意了，我就要你去美国看看到底好不好。所以，如果亲戚，朋友，同学谁谁拿到了签证，那是多大的一件事呀？ 出国前就是借钱也得请客，风光一下呀。而现在，你知道来美国的签证率吗？ 和那时差不多正相反，美国人知道中国人来美国都是送钱来的，也不大会有“逾期不归”的了，何乐而不为呢？你看暑假那些来美班机上的少男少女，耳朵里大多都塞个IPOD，手里拿着花花绿绿的洋手机，名牌服装，你还好意思称自己海龟？ 还是叫自己美国土鳖吧！

前后也就20年的光景，还记得崔健的歌吧，“不是我不明白，这世界变化快。”对，太快了！当年咱们来美国时，在高速路上转一圈，满哈坦走一遭，就宣称，中国恐怕得100年才能赶上美国，如果“正确发展”的话，但当年的政治形势，不说你也知道，所有西方大国都在对中国施以惩罚，几乎令中国再次闭关，能出来的人感到有多幸运？而且出来的那些人，大多是学校，单位的骨干，班里学习成绩最好的，有点关系的，最重要的是，运气比较好的。当你春节或节假日给家里，同学，朋友电话或通信问好时，你得到的多是更多的羡慕和甚至嫉妒，“嘿，哥们，买车了？ 牛B，我下次去美国玩就指你带我逛了。”我在国内的哥们儿经常和我在电话上这么开玩笑。于是我们就努力工作，赚钱，买房，成家，育儿育女，每年回国探亲时就可以 “趾高气昂”，和同学聚会时也经常居高临下，大卖特卖美国的优越性。回到美国，就上网大晒特晒回国时奢侈的菜肴。但不知不觉间，只不到十年的时间，我们突然发现，中国已经变得让人不敢相信了，城市的灰尘已经变成了一座又一座的高楼大厦，而且绵延不绝，当然这是大城市而已，在美国我们不也就拿纽约，芝加哥等大城市说事吗。而且，突然间，我们的那些没出国，没签上证，没考托福，甚至没钱担保的同学，朋友开始做什么“长长”的了，或者是什么什么公司经理，董事长了。而我们这帮子人，还基本是打工的，或者混上了个科研组长，teamleader什么的，连国内的科级都不如，连个捧臭脚的都没有，还得没日没夜地没有加工费地加工。就为了看老板的脸色，和年底那点分红，当然，也有牛B 的，一帮子在华尔街为那些呼风唤雨的大骗子打杂的小赌徒们，用几十年学来的那点数学，给那帮大骗子诈骗编制上漂亮的“模型外衣，”然后跟着分点残羹剩饭。

所以，当我们再回国时，发现已然没有了当年的风光，反而像是乡下人一般，买点什么都先在脑子里用人民币换算一下，和同学朋友吃饭时，也多是被请。而且，金碧辉煌的单间，让“美国人”看傻了眼，更甚的是，吃完饭后的娱乐项目。卡拉OK，娱乐中心，洗浴城，洗脚店，成排成排的年轻美女，陪你吃，喝，玩，陪你舒服，陪你刺激，只要你有钱。让咱们这些“美国人”像刘姥姥进了大观园一样。所以这几年你再上网，就看到那些牛B的人开始晒国内的娱乐写真了。跟你说实话，这玩艺也只能意会，不能言传的。有一次我的哥们带我去浴城，洗脚搓背吃饭娱乐一条龙，吃饱喝足后，坐在宽大舒适的沙发上看各种美女表演，表演绝不输给那傻冒的春节联欢晚会，据说小沈阳当年就是在这种场合表演而出名的。 服务员给你端上各种削好的水果，然后还叫来漂亮的女孩子给你搓脚，当然，还有英俊的男孩子给女士服务。满满一屋子的成功人士，都在慢慢享受改革开放给他们带来的幸福生活。但可怜的是那些在为他/她们按摩搓脚的年轻人，背对着表演台，不停地“工作”。据说他们的薪水也是不错的了，比起那些打工的乡下工人。但是，如果你仔细观察一下那些“成功人士”的表情和态度，你就会知道那是多么巨大的鸿沟，和地位。同样都是人，你有没有体会到他们的感觉？ 就算你是自己努力合法挣来的这一切，你想过没想过为什么他/她们会从事这个行业？ 他们有过没有公平的机会？特别是离我不远的一个秃头家伙，手里不老实，还净埋怨那个服务的小姐按摩不到位，不到一小时就换了两个小姐，看他那傲慢和色迷迷的样子，我恨不得上去抽他两个耳光。我大庆年轻时有点混，但从不会欺负人，最看不惯的就是大欺小，男欺女，和强欺弱。上大学时班里这种事都是找我主持正义，我一人敢和10几个人出去挑，但从不会对女人动一个手指头。

我知道，这就是那些梦想海归的男士的主要原因，幻想可以当官做福，享受中国改革开放带来的昌盛成果。虽然你当年为了追求西方生活而离开故土，你根本没想好为什么你要去西方，只是为了赚大钱，然后能在你同胞的面前眩耀一番。保持你的高人一等。但20年前你来到美国时，你其实也只企图享受人家努力了200多年创造的繁荣，根本没有好好想过美国几百年的繁荣，到底是怎么来的？ 还有这近20年，大批的中国人，外国人移民来了以后美国的飞速堕落，又是怎么回事？现在中国的经济奇迹，你搞清楚了是怎么回事了吗？ 你同学朋友发的财，你弄明白他们到底是怎么拼来的吗？如果你回去，问你一个问题：你怎么能帮助共产党稳定住政权，同时又能减少腐败，防止老百姓造反？ 你以为你那几句破英语，那点泡沫经济下的营生手段回到中国就玩得转？ 跟你说个例子，回国吃饭点菜时，一个有着博士头衔的总拿起菜单，对一帮子人说，你们不都是MBA吗？ 咱们今天在一起吃饭就是大家的缘分，所以跟你们说句老实话，在中国，吃饭点菜就是MBA。你们试试，让我看看及格了没？ 经常回去吃饭的人知道：国内吃饭一桌一般只给一份菜单，那个负责点菜的人就得根据人数，领导级别，口味，特色，菜价，菜量，让每个人都满意，还有酒水，劝酒，交情，生意，最后结账。这就是最基本的MBA了，不用说吃完饭的娱乐安排了。你在学校学的是理论，在社会上靠的是交情。咱大庆当年为了一个哥们打架，把他从护城河里救了上来，那是生死之交。现在他做的有多大，跟你说也没意思，他们家不是只有车，是有个车队。这不是一天两天，海归不海归能挣来的。你丫得识相。美国好时你削尖了脑袋往美国钻，现在美国不行了，你又要回中国享受那里的繁荣昌盛，你丫好像真不傻呀。其实你现在回去也就是个跟屁虫，如果跟好了，说不定那天也有你自己那份，但那之前，先学学中国的 “MBA”吧。你说你想回去做学问，那更别想，现在全世界博士泛滥，你那点学问也是忽悠人多过真材实学。唯一我劝你去的地方，是那些人际罕至的边远山区，去帮助那些上不起学的穷孩子识识字，知道点外边的世界。

你别以为国内就是腐败，这20年的经济奇迹不是光腐败能换来的，这是资本主义和社会主义博弈的结果。你回去是帮助中国进步呢？ 还是顺波逐流，加入腐败？ 如果是后者，我劝你丫别回去，你还是呆在美国吧， 你在美国干坏事的机会还少些，因为你丫本质就是坏人，中国不需要坏人了，那儿的坏人够多的了。你问为什么我不回去，第一，我不想回去沾别人的便宜，让人家看不起。第二，我喜欢我孩子在美国上学，不累，我喜欢和孩子在一起玩，这种幸福喝酒喝不来，第三，我喜欢我老婆，这不是回国娱乐能换来的。第四，我喜欢体育，这到处都是足球场让我去发泄。第五，美国有的是好玩儿的，只是你不愿意找而已，你丫惦记的就是回国泡妞，因为在美国你不敢。但是，我从不关心政治，这是所有中国人的陋习，所以到处被人歧视或利用。我改不了，但我希望我的孩子以后去参政。

孩子又拉我出去骑车玩了，我就写到这儿，最后我要说的就是，你们丫和我差不多，都是没大出息的人，就别充大份了。你们丫的心思我全知道，就是想和杨振宁一样回去泡马子，80了流氓习气都不改，你要回去真得找他取取“流氓”经。我的出息就是帮老婆弄好孩子，让他们别像我们小时候那样缺吃缺喝，天天政治学习，喊“毛主席万岁”，你别笑，你以为美国以后不会变成这样？ 资本主义现在基本失败了，美国必然会进入下一个社会发展的高级阶段，就是咱经过的社会主义。俗话说，不撞南墙不回头，这就是美国的现状。你要是还想回去，就趁早，现在一点不晚，但回去要努力做好人，不要耍流氓。要不，就和我一样，在美国好好哄孩子。

对了，我这里指的不是女海归，我说的只是男的。

中国的外交政策即将变化。金融危机后，该国明显加紧与发展中国家展开接触。尽管北京非常重视与华盛顿的关系，但北京与埃及、印度等新兴国家的关系也许更令人惊讶。

几个月来，若干中国学者建议用本国的外汇储备投资发展中世界的基础设施建设项目。经济学家许善达呼吁出台中国的“马歇尔计划”，以提升对中国商品的需求。中国人民银行高层也主张建立投资于发展中世界的超主权财富基金。

投资新兴世界时机成熟

这种想法既是出于投机，也是由于必需。投机是因为新兴世界在基础设施建设项目资金方面存在困难，尤其是因为外国银行都已退守本国市场。中国得益于此类基础设施，比如从阿富汗运铜的铁路，还有在埃及制造商品的工业园。

必需是因为中国面临着把数额巨大的外汇储备用于投资的难题。这些外汇储备有65%以上投资于美国资产，因此要承担美元疲软的风险。实现多样化势在必行。投资外国基础设施建设是一种可行的替代方案。

中国在这个问题上或许别无选择。它与发展中世界的关系即将遭遇严重挑战，提供发展援助是一种积极有效的对策。原因何在？

5年来，中国对新兴世界的出口已经从1900亿美元猛增到6700亿美元。中国几乎攫取了所有新兴市场国家的市场份额，导致印度和叙利亚等多国的工厂倒闭，工人失业。一年来，出口补贴和盯住美元的货币让中国出口商如虎添翼；10年来，中国是新兴世界理所当然的领导者，向西方的经济霸权发起了挑战。不过目前，中国的能力已经足以对新兴世界发起挑战。除非新兴世界能够从中国惊人的经济崛起中获益，否则中国的形象将严重恶化。

的确，在最近围绕“马歇尔计划”展开的争论中，一些中国学者认为计划草案过分注重向新兴市场增售商品，以缓解中国产能过剩的问题。他们警告说，除非加紧为当地人创造就业机会并提高其生活水平，否则计划可能会以失败告终。

增加发展援助势在必行

中国的难题在于不干涉政策。由于这个缘故，北京无法在以色列―巴勒斯坦冲突等问题上明确表示支持其中一方。凭借这种策略，中国得以避免卷入复杂的政治纷争。但这也限制了中国在新兴世界发挥影响力时的政策选择。

有个现成的例子：去年四川发生大地震后，沙特阿拉伯提供了6000万美元的重建援助。然而，由于中国在加沙冲突后只提供了200万美元的重建援助，据说阿拉伯人对中国的好感减弱了不少。因此，中国有必要遵循日本的模式。日本很少干涉别国内政。但是，日本是全世界最慷慨的发展援助提供国之一。例如，东京每年向中东提供10亿美元以上的援助，其中相当一部分给了巴勒斯坦人。这有助于提升日本在该地区的形象。

这种投机和必需的共同作用将在短期内促使中国调整外交政策并增加发展援助。尽管不少人主张设立超主权财富基金，但中国极有可能提供双边援助，从而更加直接地给中国企业带来好处，提高中国在国际上的声誉。这种发展援助很可能流向国内市场庞大或者农矿产品资源丰富的国家。非洲、中东和拉美会是首选。

中国无法长期保持快速积累外汇储备的势头。该国对新兴世界发动的商业攻势是无法持续的。经济危机使得全球发生了重大变化。不过，更大的变化还在后面。中国带来的更大惊讶将在新兴世界显现出来。